Pallo Jordan breaks the moratorium on baboon export

South African Environmental Affairs and Tourism Minister, Dr Pallo Jordan broke the moratorium on export of live baboons and ignored the advice of his department, to approve the sale of 150 baboons to a controversial French-owned animal research laboratory.

Another serious concern is that no proper count has been done of South Africa's primate population which is possibly becoming extinct in some areas. The minister's laid-back attitude in handling this matter is entirely unsatisfactory. We are calling for the immediate resignation of Dr Jordan as he is no longer to be trusted.

Read more about it:

South Africans for the Abolition of Vivisection (SAAV)


Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, Dr Pallo Jordan

Action:


NAMEEMAIL/PHONECOMMENTSDATE
Grant Warren(vroom@gem.co.za)I strongly support your campaign to stop the export of these baboons and, further vigorously condemn any form of animal experimentation! Please attempt to issue a list of companies who distribute tested products locally, and call for a consumer boycott of these. Wednesday, April 01, 1998 at 18:01:23 (SAT)
Tina(tinat@hitb.co.za)One wonders how "human" humanity really is. Here we all are adding our voices in objection to the barbaric manner in which we treat our wildlife, whilst we treat our own kind with little more "humanity". Our human rights record stinks so one can only guess at how BAD OUR ANIMAL RIGHTS MUST BE! Time to get tough with our government who are so bent on complaining about the past that they are not doing much to improve the future. What has Pallo Jordan done for South African Tourism - besides kill it?Monday, March 30, 1998 at 16:46:57 (SAT)
Kevin D Coleby(cccsail@intekom.co.za)It's time that our goverment started listening to the Nation. They are power obsessed, and as such ignore the feelings and wishes of this countries people. This barbaric action is equivelant to the struggle of this countries history. Don't we ever learn.Saturday, March 28, 1998 at 20:39:57 (SAT)
Pieter de la Rey Swartz(swartzp@cirrus.sawb.gov.za)What happened to paragraph 7 Government Gazette No. 18594 of 31 December 1997?. If a minister ignore the new Constitution, surely that minister is no longer fit to full that post. Friday, March 27, 1998 at 08:24:23 (SAT)
Mark Schlesinger(mrkschl@new.co.za)If Pallo Jordan really loves this country or has any positive sentiment to SA at all I believe the very best thing he could do for south africa is resign immediately and give the post to somebody more human and less smug.Friday, March 27, 1998 at 08:17:40 (SAT)
Cathy Naude(Cattynude@hotmail.com)Protect our primates and other animals. Without them we are nothing and to deny them the dignity they deserve is to de-humanise ourselves in the severest possible way. We have been placed in a position of trust and that position can be upheld only by protecting those who cannot help themselves against the onslaught of human degradation.Wednesday, March 25, 1998 at 20:05:56 (SAT)
Rick Venter(rgabrielv@intecom.co.za)They call themselves civilized, and our leaders still allow this to happen, when will we learn... Wednesday, March 25, 1998 at 19:12:11 (SAT)
Regan(regan@global.co.za)How dare anyone let an idiot take any animal and subject it to such vulgar and obsene undertakings. One day all will look back and see what they have done to this wonderful planet and all its inhabitants . Pallo who gave you the authority to take what is not yours and "donate" it to others ......... I hope you never rest in peace and will one day have as much suffering as you have caused and I am ashamed to be called a South African along with the likes of people like you.Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 18:10:49 (SAT)
scott(senet@global.co.za)Jordan need to tender his resignation with immediate effect. Anything less would be a crime against nature.Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 14:31:35 (SAT)
T. Hage(brody@powercom.com.au)This practice is the one of the most discusting things we as human beings are guilty of. No-one can imagine the pain and distress these animals go through......................... STOP PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 13:37:52 (SAT)
Ryan Theologo(ryan@intekom.co.za)Pallo i hope u burn in hell for this sickening and dispicable act. Do you have any idea the pain and sheer terror that poor animal must have been facing. I sincerly hope that one day you are in the same position and feel the same helplessness that that animal felt.Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 13:13:46 (SAT)
()Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 13:09:47 (SAT)
Toni Schreiber(toni@pride.co.za)"Nkosi sikelele Africa" "God save Africa" More like God save Jordan's butt when justice day comes along! All the talk about the past, the repression and demoralisation that people have suffered in this country, and now, hey man, we're in power, why not repress something else. Have they forgotten the hardship, have they forgotten the pain and the degradation? Bastard! Forget justice day, wait till I get my hands on him! Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 13:09:23 (SAT)
ryan(ryan@intekom.co.za)I dont know why i am surprised to see this, the Government has proven to be callous and incompetent in most areas. Defensless animals can be slaughtered for profit while murder's can live like kings ( i think the government needs to get some morals) Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 13:02:42 (SAT)
Steve Barrow(greebo@intekom.co.za)It shows the lack of real respect for any form of life (at least any that is not likely to vote for the ANC) that the government seems to have.Tuesday, March 24, 1998 at 11:53:56 (SAT)
Jan Heydenrych(heyden@intekom.co.za)Sickening, but what do you expect from a corrupt government. Monday, March 23, 1998 at 20:17:25 (SAT)
Douglas Hayes(dughayes@intekom.co.za)Keep what belongs to us for the furture of the country and our children.Monday, March 23, 1998 at 08:07:19 (SAT)
Jaco Beukes(webmaster@qedi.co.za)Savage. I'm a web developer. If anyone wants to do something about this mess and need my services ... it's for free. Mail me. Friday, March 20, 1998 at 15:46:12 (SAT)
cliff(wren@intekom.co.za)Let's get Pallo Jordan to face the music on this one. I suggest that what we do is put pressure on Carte Blanche (M-Net) to run a feature on this story and then grill him in a live interview. I for one will mail this suggestion to M-Net and hope that many of you do the same. Thursday, March 19, 1998 at 11:50:32 (SAT)
Warren Larkan(warrenl@cyberdude.com)Disgusting... He obviously is receiving something in his back pocket... just as corrupt as the rest of the South African GovernmentTuesday, March 17, 1998 at 21:19:26 (SAT)
Warren Larkan(warrenl@cyberdude.com)Disgusting... He obviously is receiving something in his back pocket... just as corrupt as the rst of the South African GovernmentTuesday, March 17, 1998 at 21:19:08 (SAT)
Megan Barneski(bernie_barneski@bc.sympatico.ca (604) 421-1520)Animals feel pain, and if you think it's okay to force pain upon them then you are mean and I don't like you. I'm not your friend, Pallo Jordan!Tuesday, March 17, 1998 at 08:20:48 (SAT)
Ulrich M÷rs(ulrichm@intekom.co.za)Thirdworld barbaric actions to be expected from untrained and uninformed people. Money talks. Petition needed to Constitutional Court on behalf of animals that do not "speak".Surely they would have won their case against Jordan.Saturday, March 14, 1998 at 23:49:07 (SAT)
Tania Timmermans(sean@millennia.co.za)Mr Jordan's decision is a blow to consciousness. How are we going to get our act together if we perpetuate such violence to ourself?Friday, March 13, 1998 at 22:38:27 (SAT)
IceDragon(icedragon@intekom.co.za)I am appaled that this is still happening in this country. Does the constitution just apply then to the human inhabitants of this country? I thought our new goverment were to bring freedom to all the creatures of this country. I suppose we were all wrong in assuming the constitution protects even those that cannot vote.Tuesday, March 10, 1998 at 20:25:38 (SAT)
Tracy Rukenbrod(Aes69Sedia@aol.com)Lets hope there will come a day when humans look upon animals without $$$$ in their eyes.we shall keep trying to arise to this! Saturday, March 07, 1998 at 06:04:52 (SAT)
Tracy Rukenbrod()Saturday, March 07, 1998 at 05:23:12 (SAT)
Bernard(create@intekom.co.za)LET'S CRATE OLD PALLO HIMSELF UP AND SEND HIM OFF TO A VIVISECTION LAB! THAT OUGHT TO CHANGE HIS MIND.Wednesday, March 04, 1998 at 14:47:47 (SAT)
Tasha Randell(tash@diamondworks.co.za)I am horrified and deeply saddened by the information contained within this site. I have emailed "Jordan the terrible" and would like to offer my complete and determined services to you organisation. If there is anything I might be able to assist with, please contact me. In a case like this only extreme action can make your voice heard. so many people are unaware of what's being done to our animals. My fiance' and I are devoted Max fans and support the demand for Jordans resignation and will do anything within our means to assist and protect all animals and particularly the apes/baboons and gorilla's of the world!Tuesday, March 03, 1998 at 15:56:52 (SAT)
()Monday, March 02, 1998 at 15:20:12 (SAT)
Debbie(debbievr@hotmail.com)I think that Any cruelty to animals is sick, especially when it is for the benefit of humans. Who gave him the right to go through with this.Monday, March 02, 1998 at 14:58:36 (SAT)
FRANS VAN NIEKERK(optus@intekom.co.za)MY 8 JEAR OLD SON, EVERT,HAD A COMMENT ON 28/02/98 AFTER ALSO FOLLOWING THE NEWS.."I WISH WE COULD PUT A BIG PLASTER ON OUR COUNTRY TO HEAL IT".. I WAS UNABLE TO RETURN A POSITIVE COMMENT TO HIM, BUT TO MR JORDAN I WOULD LIKE TO SAY, "RATHER START A PLASTER FACTORY,OUR KIDS ARE GOIING TO NEED A LOT OF "BIG" PLASTERS IF THIS IS THE WAY YOU WORK !" ALLOW INNOCENT BABOONS TO LIVE A HAPPY LIFE IN THE NATURAL HABITAT OUR COUTRY HAS TO OFFER. FRANS VAN NIEKERK MELKBOSSTRAND CAPE. Sunday, March 01, 1998 at 22:24:33 (SAT)
Mike Brassil(mfb@intekom.co.za)I am stunned to hear this- why do we keep taking one step forward and three back?? Wednesday, February 25, 1998 at 20:56:55 (SAT)
Dr JN Manson(jondavid@mweb.co.za)Barbaric, savagery from a country entertaining that sort of thingThursday, February 19, 1998 at 22:40:50 (SAT)
Lynne Marshall(lynne@redcherry.co.za)When will this country wake up to the harm it is doing, all very well to have a bill of human rights, what about looking after thoses who cannot speak for themselves - has Dr Jordan ever taken the time to walk through one of the animal experimentation units, maybe if he took the time out of his busy schedule his attitude may change. Please rethink this issue while there is still a choice.Thursday, February 19, 1998 at 11:13:08 (SAT)
Maverick(rayden@intekom.co.za)I think that you have a smaller brain than those baboons. Start using it !!! This is very sick...how can you be so laid back. Have you no backbone in you ? P.S. How would you like to be a lab baboon ???Thursday, February 19, 1998 at 00:11:34 (SAT)
R Babnik(rbabnik@intekom.co.za)Easy Money ! R1000 a baboon Lets Rape Pillage and Plunder... Tuesday, February 17, 1998 at 21:16:43 (SAT)
Petrus(())Come on, Get real!! The only animals in this country that doesn't have ANY rights is the average salaried worker. Everyone else, including Thieves, Rapists and dolphins has rights. Worry about yourselves for a change!!Friday, February 13, 1998 at 22:33:07 (SAT)
Ras(cc_cool1@yahoo.com)Forgive him Lord, for he knows not what he is doing....Tuesday, February 10, 1998 at 16:25:42 (SAT)
Louise()In the Old South Africa it was quite acceptable and Christian to treat non-whites like animals. Perhaps in the New South Africa Revision 2, animals will also have rights. Wednesday, February 04, 1998 at 20:51:13 (SAT)
Piers Buckle(pbuckle@touchline.co.za)Half of me would like to rationally think of an eloquent and emotive statement to put to Mr Jordan in the vein hope that just maybe a spark of morality would ignite within him the realisation of what he is doing. This I will do as I am a rational human being. And I'd also like to say that I hope that one day I will be able to buy products that have been tested freely on DUMB MOTHERFUCKERS like him. He has got to be stopped.Sunday, February 01, 1998 at 15:09:39 (SAT)
Leon Liebenberg(Liebenberg@hotmail.com)This man calims to be minister of enviroment does he?Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 21:30:41 (SAT)
W.McNamee(27 11 462 7604)Mr Jordan should donate his body for experimentation and vivisection.He is not a member of a protected species.lThursday, January 29, 1998 at 13:04:07 (SAT)
Patrick Wilke(Wilke@intekom.co.za)My Mother has been running a animal rehabilitation centre for the last 22 years and we have had thousands of animals, from doves to cows to Forrest Buzzards and Mountain Desert Adders. I grew up with animals and believe that anyone who carries out vivesection should be arrested and stuck in an electric chair, just to show them what its like being one of their "patients." This is a disgusting and inhumane practice. With a little time and money the companies carrying out animal testing could probably design a computer program to simulate these tests and results. It may take a few years but it could end all types of animal testing. Mayber we should use these "docter" as test subject for the AIDS virus. Give them a taste of their own medicine.Thursday, January 29, 1998 at 11:13:20 (SAT)
Deon ()It just shows that one baboon does not feel anything for another baboon. Why not export the whole goverment because baboons is running this country. I wonder how much bribery is involved now again?Tuesday, January 27, 1998 at 17:32:10 (SAT)
Deon van Tonder(dmlab@intekom.co.za)Why don't Pallo Jordan export some of his own race baboons and rather put the real one's in parlement. Maybe then we got a goverment that you can trust.Tuesday, January 27, 1998 at 17:26:19 (SAT)
Ross Field(rossf@ixchange.co.za)"The day will come when vivisection in the name of science will be looked upon as we see witch-burning in the name of religion" - Author UnknownMonday, January 26, 1998 at 15:47:06 (SAT)
ANIMAL-LOVER()I WONDER IF THE FATS CATS ARE GOING TO BECOME FAT BABOONS NOW ?!?!?!? ONLY A BABOON CAN ALLOW THIS !!Sunday, January 25, 1998 at 23:20:05 (SAT)
Willem Gous(gmtsa@iafrica.com)It is so typical of the new South African government,corruption is everywhere,when will people stop looking the other way and put a stop to it.I wonder how much he makes out of this deal.Thursday, January 22, 1998 at 05:47:38 (SAT)
Duckie9002(Duckie9002@aol.com)THIS MOTHERFUCKER NEED TO BE STOPPED!!!Wednesday, January 21, 1998 at 19:58:39 (SAT)
EL Pienaar(epienaar@hotmail.com)Well how low can you go!? I guess it goes to show that there is just no shocking us anymore. Could this man not THINK and know what would happen it if leaked out? He should not be above the law. If someone can be punished for sticking crackers in a dog and killing it - he should be punished for sending baboons for testing and getting them killed. Now that I think about it - he would look funny cleaning stables and looking after animals as punishment! :)) Wednesday, January 21, 1998 at 00:09:30 (SAT)
Estelle ((012) 420-2802)Forgive him Lord, for he knows not what he is doing....Monday, January 19, 1998 at 12:04:02 (SAT)
Ashley Lemmer(pcadvice@intekom.co.za)It's not fair.. Sunday, January 18, 1998 at 09:50:25 (SAT)
()i think that the selling of these animals for experimental uses is absolutely disgusting and I feel that experimental treatment should be given to Mr Jordan, so he can feel what it is like!!Saturday, January 17, 1998 at 13:15:20 (SAT)
Nikki(nikkil@adcorp.co.za)I feel positively nauseated and devastated regarding vivisection, and the fact that any human being can live with him/herself having been involved in any way at promoting this hideous act, is beyond me. I firmly believe that people like Jordan need to be stopped immediately and punished for thier cruekty to helpless and defenceless creatures.Thursday, January 15, 1998 at 10:44:05 (SAT)
Cobus Elstadt(0251-23121)I always thought that Pallo Jordan was the one person who knew what he was doing. Mr Jordan, disappointment is truly a sad experience.Monday, January 12, 1998 at 22:26:13 (SAT)
Warren Larkan(warrenl@cyberdude.com)Like with the rest of the government, no one has a clue what they are doing there. Maybe the baboons in parliament should rather be the ones sent off to other countries for testing!!!!Saturday, January 10, 1998 at 20:21:19 (SAT)
Kashief(thebowsers@mindspring.com)This guy has to be taken out of government. If he can make a decision like that so easily, he can cause great harm to the animals of South Africa. He's a doc, and he knows what he is doing is wrong. I hope he reads this.Tuesday, December 30, 1997 at 04:40:26 (SAT)
Rosemary(Rose@intekom)I totally agree that South Africa should not be exporting our animals to be murdered in other countries. Where will the draw the line on experimental work on living creatures- humans perhaps? And I am sure the Europeans will not be looking in Paris for volunteers, rather in a third world country in Africa! Sunday, December 28, 1997 at 10:47:35 (SAT)
Sue Williams(seamoth@hotmail.com)Pallo Jordon, if he doesn't step down, which he won't, should be inundated with protest mail on this dispicable action. Saturday, December 27, 1997 at 17:38:39 (SAT)
Mike Berry(mikeberry@intekom.co.za)Shocking and outrageous. Mr Jordan's actions speak for themselves. We, the people speak with the voting card. Let us remember.Thursday, December 25, 1997 at 00:59:54 (SAT)
Olivia Niculescu(Olivia.Niculescu@unilever.com)This is what the constution states about the environment. Dr Pallo Jordan in my opinion is breaking the law. He should be charged and asked to step down immediately. South African citizens DO NOT want to be associated with animal experimentation. I do not want to live in a country where this is allowed and supported!!!! 24. Everyone has the right - (b) to have the environment protected, for the benefit of present and future generations, through reasonable legislative and other measures that - (ii) promote conservation; and (iii) secure ecologically sustainable development and use of natural resources while promoting justifiable economic and social development.Thursday, December 18, 1997 at 09:43:50 (SAT)
Yvette(yritchie@icl.co.za)I find it incredulous that this is happening. We seem to forget that we already have a baboon as in Mr Jordan himself. Lets sell him off and do experiments to him. You live in the dark ages Mr Jordan! Wednesday, December 17, 1997 at 10:51:42 (SAT)
()I think that ANY cruelty to animals is sick, especially when it is for the benefit of humans. What gives us the right to torture innocent animals. Dr Jordan should resign from his post and people should be made aware of what is happening behind closed doors.Tuesday, December 16, 1997 at 23:09:30 (SAT)
Thea(thea@hospibuy.co.za)I feel ambivilent about vivisection. The need for medical research is important. The best way I cope with it, is not to think about it. The subject is not a pleasant one, however, I do feel strongly about experiments on animals purely for cosmetic reasons.Tuesday, December 16, 1997 at 10:40:05 (SAT)
()Do people actually know that sometimes the tests that are done on animals do not deliver true results of what will happen to humans if they take the same drug?? I think this politician totally abused his position. He is the one person who could've taken a strong stand on the issue of the babboons...but he didn't. Who is the public supposed to turn to now? I despise him and all those who hurt poor, defenceless creatures.Wednesday, December 10, 1997 at 15:06:11 (SAT)
stroid(astrid@intekom.co.za)Interesting how the champions of democracy and multilateral decision making become the autocrats of the day; glibly ignoring policy developed while listening to the peoples' voice. It's nothing short of shameful and sadly, predictable.Tuesday, December 09, 1997 at 15:46:04 (SAT)
Nikki Botha(mop@intekom.co.za)I mailed this baboon one hell of a stinking email. I feel the ruder the better. For the simple reason that if our furry friends could speak, they would be far less kind about the sitaution than us. This lowlife, subintelligent personage with a PhD in idiotics is a disgrace not only to this country but to human kind over all. As of yet I have had no repsone from him, probably to try and cover his own embarrasment ( or am I being overtly optimistic here ). I recon lets make this more of an international issue, get Animal Activists from all over the world to make this asshole's life a living hell, the same way he did with our friends. And after that lets hope he belives in God, coz he will have a hell of a lot of praying to do. Come to think of it, God must see him as a failed scientific experiment anyway and washed his hands. Pallo Jordan the only reason why you still alive is coz someone let you live. If I were you I would watch my back. We are NOT a bunch of meak bunny huggers. The same way you meant business with the baboons, we mean business with you. Period.Monday, December 08, 1997 at 16:36:08 (SAT)
Rudy Johl(rudys@intekom.co.za)Why do some people that mistreat their dogs at guyfawkes get prosecuted for cruelty to animals when peolpe like you Mr Jordan give the OK to torture defensless animals for cosmetic or scientific reasons. Revoke your decision or Resign the post that you otherwise are not fit to fill. Saturday, December 06, 1997 at 11:23:00 (SAT)
Sirius x 4(info@sirius.co.za)NO, NO, NO, NO - who the hell gives human beings the right to torture defenceless animals for scientific or cosmetic research - if you need to test reaction of medicines or cosmetic on humans, why not use humans? Pallo Jordan, we think this action is abominable and we do not think that you are fit for your position. We demand that you either revoke this decision or leave your position!!! Friday, December 05, 1997 at 17:36:29 (SAT)
(christine@intekom.co.za)I have no respect for govenment officials. They misuse and abuse our animals, resources, and money! No to mention our trust - why not do a few experiments on him? This new SA is a farce!! Friday, December 05, 1997 at 11:17:39 (SAT)
DISGUSTED(011-266-7893)YOU BLOODY IDIOT, WHY DON'T YOU BECOME THE SOLE TEST SUBJECT, ANOTHER THING, HOW MUCH DID YOU GET PAID TO DO SO. Friday, December 05, 1997 at 09:02:59 (SAT)
Medusa(wirehouse@mailcity.com)If one's place on the evolutionary chain determines ones suitability for research, then Pallo Jordan's place is right down there. Hopefully we'll need to form a "Save the Pallo Jordan's of the World Group" sometime. Look forward to it. Don't count on my membership.Friday, December 05, 1997 at 08:04:41 (SAT)
Chris Metcalf(pinnacle@ilink.co.za)Disgusting. Try it on humans first who can moan and complain about whatever is being tested, and when they are being hurt in the name of research!Friday, December 05, 1997 at 05:52:21 (SAT)
peeved off(:-()Listen Dr Jordan, Who the hell made you God. Why don't you and your cronies get exported for testing, we need to know what makes you lot tick Thursday, December 04, 1997 at 22:39:12 (SAT)
Grant Quinn(grantq@intekom.co.za)How dare you harm those innocent animals. You are not fit to be a minister of Environmental affairs and Tourism. Hand that portfolio to someone who is more competent. Thursday, December 04, 1997 at 21:01:34 (SAT)
Stefan Paetow(stefan@andromeda.co.za)When it comes to moratoria being broken I feel Minister Jordan should be fired immediately. When it comes to his decision in the face of the primates in question becoming extinct, he should be retired from his job immediately and perhaps even vivisected himself. I am sick and tired of ministers making decisions without even consulting the public, even if it is "in the best of the country"Thursday, December 04, 1997 at 12:47:47 (SAT)
lynn defoe(lynnd@hitb.co.za)Pallo jordan strikes again. Isn't this just typical of our government ministers - that have little or no knowledge of the portfolio of which they are in charge. Lets rather sell convicted murders, rapists and paedophiles to these labs to be used for vivisection. We would be "killing two birds with one stone"Thursday, December 04, 1997 at 10:41:22 (SAT)
alec(alecmccrindle@hotmail.com)i think the only time vivisection should be allowed is on corrupt government officials. seriously, it's just another example of greed triumphing over compassion.Wednesday, December 03, 1997 at 17:16:00 (SAT)
Nelson Larangeira(cleng@intekom.co.za)So who made Pallo Jordan God? Who even made him minister?? Either way it's another nail in the coffin of the corrupt New South Africa, when monetary gain becomes more important than the life of a defenseless animal!!!Wednesday, December 03, 1997 at 16:43:58 (SAT)
eric(ericharp@hotmail.com)If the moratorium on baboon exports is being flouted, who gave Pallo Jordan a mandate to do so?Wednesday, December 03, 1997 at 16:29:19 (SAT)
Sven()Stop the baboons ... from exporting baboons !!!Thursday, November 27, 1997 at 07:47:00 (SAT)
Candice Pelser(candice@cis.co.za)No animal cruelty can be justified. Animal experimentation (be it cosmetic or for mlitary research) is inhumane. Another concern is that no proper survey of the wild primate population has been done. Monday, November 17, 1997 at 23:24:53 (SAT)
Jackie Dove(dove@slip.net)I completely disagree with the decision to export primates for vivisection. There is no animal model for the human system. To torture sentient creatures for the sake of scientists' salaries and government indifference is wrong. End the slave trade in primates now!Saturday, November 15, 1997 at 10:24:46 (SAT)
Jacqlyn Edge(jacqlyn@intekom.co.za)So what do bans mean these days then? Nothing.Tuesday, November 11, 1997 at 17:20:17 (SAT)

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